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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
389
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Posted - 2014.03.06 20:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Minmatar Sentinel currently will have 435 Armor and 390 Shields for a total of 825 EHP. That makes it the lowest EHP Sentinel. Also, I thought the Minmatar were more shield based, why does the Minmatar Sentinel have more Armor than Shields then?
But wait! It can move faster than the others!
All the other Sentinels have a Walk Speed of 3.85m/s and a Sprint Speed of 5.39m/s(Walk Speed * 1.4 = Sprint Speed).
The Minmatar Sentinel will have a Walk Speed of 4.05m/s and a Sprint Speed of 5.67m/s.
That really doesn't seem like it makes up for it's lesser EHP.
You can pretty much get the same Sprint Speed as a Minmatar Sentinel in any other Sentinel suit with a basic KinCat and you'll also have more base EHP.
Hell, with the Gallente Sentinel you could slap on a Couple Complex KinCats and some Armor Reps, and you've got a fit that runs faster than a Minmatar Sentinel has great self repping capabilities and more EHP.
HELL! You could do this in an Amarr Sentinel! Two Complex KinCats and a Complex Armor Repper. 135 more EHP, Can run faster and have self armor repping.
The tiny extra speed the Minmatar Sentinel has really does not make up for having less EHP than the other Sentinels, not to mention the Gallente Sentinel and the Amarr Sentinel have the capability to run faster and survive longer.
Sure you could put two KinCats on the Minmatar Sentinel, but that's all your low slots, no room for anything else down there, no reppers, nothing.
I think giving the Minmatar Sentinel an extra low slot so it has an even slot layout of 3/3 would make up for the lesser EHP in my opinion.
It's just a bit sad that two other Sentinels can fill the speed tanking role better than the Minmatar Sentinel can.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
392
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Posted - 2014.03.07 08:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:]
soooo.... lets see, minmatar gets greatly increased base speed (something which can not be made up for) and sacrifices a little HP., oh and they get a little more stamina/recoery as well.
Hmm, what can I fit on a different heavy that will allow it strafe faster/jump higher/walk faster..... oh right nothing.
That tiny extra speed is worth 1 complex kinetic catalizer(and of course an advantage over just that module as well). If you want to put that in armor terms, that "little" speed is worth a complex armor plate.
Greatly increased is an exaggeration. It's worth a Complex KinCat? Bullshit, it's worth a Basic KinCat which already gives a nearly unnoticeable speed increase. That ~5% bonus to movement speed is paltry, and in no way makes up for the lesser eHP. Me being able to walk 5% faster is not going to help me out play any other Sentinel. Meanwhile both Amarr and Gallente can fill the speed Sentinel role better than the Minmatar can. The Minmatar Sentinel can be outclassed at it's own supposed specialty by the Amarr, the big, bulky armor taking Amarr. The Minmatar Sentinel is a joke, sadly.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
392
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Posted - 2014.03.07 08:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Highest BASE SPEED. There is no way to increase that.
It can walk ~5% faster while sacrificing ~11% eHP compared to Caldari and Gallente(the gap between Minmatar and Amarr is even wider, ~16%). Sure, KinCats give it a slightly larger bonus due to the higher base speed, but you only have two low slots.
One KinCat and an Armor Rep?
A Gallente can fit two KinCats and two Armor Reps. It can run faster, self heal, and has more eHP.
Use two KinCats? Well there goes all your low slots, but now you can run faster than that Gallente!
But, oh wait, the Gallente could run three KinCats and still have room for an Armor Rep. Again, it runs faster, has self healing and more eHP.
The Minmatar Sentinel all around sucks compared to the others, I just want it to be useful. Give it a third low slot, then it'll probably suck less, I might even go so far as to say it could actually be decent!
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
392
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Posted - 2014.03.07 08:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Nope, your problem is you are just ********.
Lets go through the math shall we?
#1 No, there is absolutely no scenrio in which the amarrian sentinel can be faster than the minmatar one.
#2 minmatar get a 0.28 sprint speed boost to go along with a 0.2 m/sec walking speed boost, oh and a 10% bonus to stamina pool, oh and a 33% bonus to stamina recharge. I am sorry if I lumped all of that into the equivelent of 1 complex mod. How about we call it 1 basic mod, 1/2 of a basic mod, and a boost that no one can possibly equal?
#3 show me an amarrian fit that can go faster than a similarly fit minmatar sentinel. (hint you won't). The amarrian sentinel needs to fit a complex kin-cat just to match the minmatar sentinel sprint, but will never be as fast, or as agile, or as mobile. The minmatar suit needs only a complex armor mod to exceed the amarrian hit points, while being faster, more agile, and more mobile than it.
F-ck off with your lies.
First off, why are you insulting me? You can disprove my math without being a hostile jack-wagon.
Secondly, here's some math(no module bonuses or biotics skill bonus, the results will still be relative without them).
Minmatar Sentinel Sprintiness: 5.67 * 1.2999(Two Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 7.37 m/s
Ammar Sentinel Sprintiness : 5.39 * 1.4112(Three Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 7.61 m/s
With three Complex KinCats the Ammar Sentinel can indeed sprint faster than the Minmatar Sentinel.
Let's make two fits, a speedy Amarr Sentinel with as much eHP as possible and a speedy Minmatar with as much eHP as possible. No skill bonuses will be applied and I will be using the Prototype tier suits.
Amarr Sentinel ak.0
Three Complex KinCats
Two Complex Shield Extenders
Sprint Speed: 7.62 m/s
eHP: 1092
Minmatar Sentinel mk.0
Two Complex KinCats
Three Complex Shield Extenders
Sprint Speed: 7.37 m/s
eHP: 1023
The Amarr Sentinel can do what the Minmatar Sentinel can do, but better. Albeit only slightly. If I am wrong, please offer your rebuttal without being a jack-wagon. Thank you.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
392
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Posted - 2014.03.07 09:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:So what you're saying is the minmatar sentinel suffers from the problem that every other minmatar suit has?
Bingo. I don't see why they are all so outclassed by the other races though, is it really that difficult to make them comparable to the others? It must be because they look the coolest, and the only way for the other races to compete with such a high intimidation factor, is to be functionally better.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
393
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Posted - 2014.03.07 10:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Minmatar are typically more speed and damage based over everything else. Also the flexible part; slot wise we got room for a fifth race if ever brought up. your point is? I and others already mentioned it several times, after full fit you give up ~15% EHP for ~7% more speed compared to other sentinels. if you consider that a gallente sentinel with a kincat is as mobile as the minmatar full tank sentinel fit but the gallente will sill have more EHP with that kincat then you can clearly see that this isnt a fair tradeoff. That's not true, you can only speed up sprint speed but never walking and therefore strafe speed. So a gallente heavy may get similar or even better sprint speed but all other speed stats remain unchanged...plus the minmatar heavy has slighly more stamina and stamina recovery as well... Never underestimate a speedy heavy 
The problem is that the Minmatar Sentinel is insignificantly faster.
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
393
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Posted - 2014.03.07 10:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Supernus Gigas wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Nope, your problem is you are just ********.
Lets go through the math shall we?
#1 No, there is absolutely no scenrio in which the amarrian sentinel can be faster than the minmatar one.
#2 minmatar get a 0.28 sprint speed boost to go along with a 0.2 m/sec walking speed boost, oh and a 10% bonus to stamina pool, oh and a 33% bonus to stamina recharge. I am sorry if I lumped all of that into the equivelent of 1 complex mod. How about we call it 1 basic mod, 1/2 of a basic mod, and a boost that no one can possibly equal?
#3 show me an amarrian fit that can go faster than a similarly fit minmatar sentinel. (hint you won't). The amarrian sentinel needs to fit a complex kin-cat just to match the minmatar sentinel sprint, but will never be as fast, or as agile, or as mobile. The minmatar suit needs only a complex armor mod to exceed the amarrian hit points, while being faster, more agile, and more mobile than it.
F-ck off with your lies.
First off, why are you insulting me? You can disprove my math without being a hostile jack-wagon. Secondly, here's some math(no module bonuses or biotics skill bonus, the results will still be relative without them). Minmatar Sentinel Sprintiness: 5.67 * 1.2999(Two Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 7.37 m/s Ammar Sentinel Sprintiness : 5.39 * 1.4112(Three Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 7.61 m/s With three Complex KinCats the Ammar Sentinel can indeed sprint faster than the Minmatar Sentinel. Let's make two fits, a speedy Amarr Sentinel with as much eHP as possible and a speedy Minmatar with as much eHP as possible. No skill bonuses will be applied and I will be using the Prototype tier suits. Amarr Sentinel ak.0Three Complex KinCats Two Complex Shield Extenders Sprint Speed: 7.61 m/s eHP: 1092 Minmatar Sentinel mk.0Two Complex KinCats Three Complex Shield Extenders Sprint Speed: 7.37 m/s eHP: 1023 The Amarr Sentinel can do what the Minmatar Sentinel can do, but better. Albeit only slightly. If I am wrong, please offer your rebuttal without being a jack-wagon. Thank you. Also ingoring bonuses from skills because they factor out here. So, stacking penalties work like this #1 full bonus #2 87% of bonus #3 57% of bonus Bonus for minmatar w/ 2 complex kincats (at 10% bonus) 18.7% increase Bonus for amarr w 3 complex 24.4% increase amarr starts at 3.65 m/sec walk, 5.11 sprint amarr ends up with 6.3364 sprint minmatar starts with 4.05m/sec walk, 5.67 sprint speed minmatar ends with 6.73 m/sec sprint Minmatar ends up with Amarr ends up with 3.65 m/sec walk speed, 6.334 m/sec sprint speed, 1092 HP Minmatar ends up with 4.05 m/sec walk speed, 6.73 sprint speed. 1023 HP. Minmatar is faster. Stop lying dude. Seriously it is annoying. Your math is bad and you should feel bad. EDIT: Or of course the minmatar sentinel can sacrifice 1 kin-cat for a ferro scale, end up with the same HP as the amarr, walk/strafe/move faster and sprint at 0.1 m/sec slower. You are SO full of sh-t.
Wow, I just realized that the Amarr Sentinel's base walk speed is 3.65, NOT 3.85. Way to go CCP, your sixes look like eights.
That being said, you are an ******* Crimson. Instead of pointing out that I was mistaken, you call me r.etarded and tell me I'm lying. What the hell is wrong with you?
EDIT: By the way, you clearly have no idea how stacking penalties work.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
399
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Posted - 2014.03.07 17:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Supernus Gigas wrote:
Wow, I just realized that the Amarr Sentinel's base walk speed is 3.65, NOT 3.85. Way to go CCP, your sixes look like eights.
That being said, you are an ******* Crimson. Instead of pointing out that I was mistaken, you call me r.etarded and tell me I'm lying. What the hell is wrong with you?
EDIT: By the way, you clearly have no idea how stacking penalties work.
And this is why I call you ******** and full of sh-t.I'll admit, I was a *tiny* bit off when multipling the stacking penalties. should be amarr = 6.45 m/sec minmatar = 6.79 m/sec still doesn't change anything. You are full of sh-t, a typical minmatar whiner not realizing your suits are fine.
And after all this, you still can't calculate the sprint speed correctly lol.
Ammar Sprint: 5.11 m/s(Base Sprint) * 1.3215(Three Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 6.75 m/s
Minmatar Sprint: 5.67 m/s(Base Sprint) * 1.2368(Two Complex KinCats with Stacking Penalties) = 7.01 m/s
So you were right about the Amarr not being able to sprint faster, but you never ever dd get the correct numbers.
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
404
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
While Jovians are cool and all, this thread is discussing the Minmatar Sentinel. While I can't force you to stay on topic, if you don't; I will hunt you down in game and Melee you to death. I also greatly revised the OP to better get my point across.
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
407
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Martyr Saboteur wrote:Im not so sure about it being "subpar".
With KinCats and Enegizers, it would basically be a Minmatar Assault that trades its equipment slot and passive repair for a heavy weapon slot. That sounds more than viable.
But it isn't an Assault. It's a "Speedy" Sentinel whose speedy role can be outdone by the Gallente Sentinel.
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
407
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Posted - 2014.03.08 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:potential speed is meaningless; it's base speed that's important.
What kind of idiot stacks kincats? And who puts ANY kincats on a sentinel?
The main point is, the Minmatar sentinel can move around the fastest without speed mods, and that's all that matters for that.
No matter how fast a heavy frame is, they'll never be able to "speed tank"
5% faster than two of the other Sentinels. Being able to walk 5% faster is not going to save the Minmatar Sentinel from winning any kind of engagement.
Who puts KinCats on a Sentinel? I do, I feel like a ******* gazel wearing a suit of armor. It's great. With Module and Skill Bonuses the Gallente Sentinel will be ******* flying at 8.74 m/s with four Complex KinCats.
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
409
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Posted - 2014.03.08 22:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:
It seems like all you want is low slots, I don't think anything else will make you happy. Go Gal then.
All I want is low slots? No, all I want is for the Minmatar Sentinel to be the all around best speed tanking Sentinel. Currently, the Gallente will hold that title.
Galvan Nized wrote:
A Minnie with 2 Kin Cats is basically the same speed as a Gal with 3, the gal is 0.14m faster. But the Minnie strafes faster with more stamina. If a Gal puts on any plates he is now slower.
You're right, the speeds are very similar, except the Gallente can get decent Armor Reps while the Minmatar cannot self repair. The Minmatar barely strafes faster, only 5% faster. I really don't see that 5% bonus saving my hide while I have ~11% less eHP.
Galvan Nized wrote:
Plus you completely worry about 7% speed difference but think 5% more damage is somehow worthless. That compound with proficiency so they are still nice.
Where did you get 7% from? And yes, come 1.8 damage mods will be useless compared to Shield Extenders.
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